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There's been a lot of online coverage about the whole Gay Panel Discussion that was recently held at Yeshiva University.
While I wasn't one of the 800 people that attended, I did read a transcript of the event, written by Chana over at The Curious Jew. From what I understand, the event was put together by the YU Tolerance Club which aims to combat homophobia on the YU campus. The event featured several panelists who shared their personal stories about coming out and being gay in the frum world.
And now there's a little bit of backlash. Apparently there are frum people out there who are upset with YU for providing a forum for this and for whatever other reason. You can listen to an audio lecture by Rav Mayer Twersky here.
I've written about gay people in the past. Back in November 2008, I wrote a post entitled Is it ok to like the Gays? and another entitled Is my gaydar off?. And then in June 2009 I wrote my controversial post, I'm scared of lesbians. Feel free to delve into my past with those. (I can't wait for more hate mail)
I think the fact that these are topics that I've brought up, and that YU has now brought up, shows how far the gay community has come in coming out (I'll leave you to decide whether that's a good thing or not). It has taken the taboo out of the closet and into the open, and has provided new fodder for the media and the general public to talk about. For a long time it seemed that the 'gay issue' did not exist in the frum world. And then movies and books like Trembling Before G-d came out and suddenly frum people realized that not only did it exist, but that it existed within our own ranks. And yet still there was no discussion.
Part of me thinks it's about time that SOMEONE's brought it up. I actually think the YU Panel took on a most 'vanilla' approach with the subject - obviously, as human beings, we all believe, or should believe, in tolerance. I think it would have been a lot more interesting if YU had actually presented a halachic debate on the topic, or had actually presented its views on issues such as gay marriage.
Another part of me wonders if perhaps it was wrong to bring up an issue that really doesn't need more of a spotlight. There is so little left in our society that is still considered private. Isn't it our role as Jews to bring 'light' to the world? Do we do our job when we bring up topics that would have been considered quite innapropriate for most of the past 5,770 years?
Or maybe we really are entering a new age...
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
YU & The Gay Debate
love, Maidel at 1:06 AM
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4 comments:
We've moved past the point when gayness can be considered imaginary; but, is it really necessary to validate it? At least have some shame.
Practicing gay individuals are violating a commandment. For a person to say he's frum and gay is like someone saying he's frum and not shomer shabbos.
It is now PC to embrace who you are, even if it violates religious law. Judaism has no requirements to modernize itself in that regard. We are commanded to exterminate Amalek; Ishmael is referred to as a perah adam; Egyptians got smited; adulterous women fell apart (literally).
We are not the teddy bear religion. You want validation for your lifestyle, look elsewhere. But to be frum and gay means you need a therapist to "straighten" you out.
>Another part of me wonders if perhaps it was wrong to bring up an issue that really doesn't need more of a spotlight. There is so little left in our society that is still considered private.
I would agree with this if the "gay problem" was ever actually out in the open. Even at YU, probably the most liberal orthodox yeshiva, it is not uncommon to hear gay slurs, or to hear people espouse the opinion that being gay is a choice. (I didn't listen to the audio, but I heard that Rav Twersky hedged his bets here as well.) It is also not uncommon to hear that gay Jews are the fault of the secular world corrupting the minds of the Jews.
Orthodox Jews may know that there are gay people, but often do not know anyone in their community that is gay. Sure, some Jews may be gay, but those gays are perverted sinners, like adulterers. They just want to sin, like atheists that don't believe in G-d so they can eat cheeseburgers. They don't know any Jews that struggle daily with the nisyonos of someone with a completely different orientation. Many believe that there are no Orthodox Jews who are really frum and of the homosexual orientation at the same time.
This event did something to bring that situation to light. I keep on hearing that while, of course, one must be empathetic of their situation, I just din't want to hear about it, and they should keep it to themselves. This doesn't seem like empathy to me. Typically, if you wish to express sympathy or empathy to someone, you don't tell them to zip it.
>but, is it really necessary to validate it? At least have some shame.
Validate what? Have some shame about what?
Those members of the panel are frum Jews that spent most of their lives closeted, and terrified that they were gay, and/or that someone else would discover it. One of them mentioned that after confessing his "sin" of being a gay (non-practicing) person to a camp counselor, he was branded as "evil" by the camp administrator. They have had to sit in classes, or hang out with friends that frequently made off-handed bigoted remarks about gays. In short, they have experienced nothing but shame. Asking people to be more sympathetic about their plight, and not calling everyone who feels their urges perverted sinners or worse, is not asking people to grant validation of homosexual intercourse. It is asking for a little understanding.
It's easy for us to be high and mighty about gay people seeking tolerance. "Judaism is not the religion of tolerance!" we can sneer, comfortable in our own superior morality. But we're not gay. To be intolerant of gays does not require us to actually be more moral, but it lets us feel as if we are, because it is one sin that we feel absolutely no desire to commit. It's easy to imagine, then, that those who do feel such a desire must be on a lower level than us, when the truth is, they just sit on a completely different plane of existence that is really hard for us to comprehend. Hosting events like these helps us to understand. What is the problem with that?
>It is now PC to embrace who you are, even if it violates religious law.
Did I miss something in the transcript? When did these guys confess to having gay sex? Otherwise, how can "embracing who you are" be a violation of religious law, if who you are is not a sinner?
>Judaism has no requirements to modernize itself in that regard. We are commanded to exterminate Amalek;
And yet, no Amalekite has been killed in the last 2000 years.
Ishmael is referred to as a perah adam; Egyptians got smited;
And what practical consequence do those facts have? Are we commanded to smite Egyptians? Is that a mitzvah? Are we commanded to recognize Arabs as rebellious, freedom-loving people?
>adulterous women fell apart (literally).
Again, not so much lately.
>Judaism has no requirements to modernize itself in that regard.
Hmmm...Maybe Judaism did modernize itself, just you haven't been paying attention.
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