Tuesday, January 12, 2010

is this shiksa just for practice?

There's this non-Jewish girl in one of my classes. She's really pretty - in a more pornstar and less girl-next-door way. She has a lot of Jewish friends. And is 'seriously' dating a Jewish guy. (her plastic surgeon's probably Jewish too) She mentioned that she told her boyfriend that she would convert if he wanted her to, but that he doesn't. And that they've agreed to raise their future kids Jewish (ie have bar/bat mitzvah parties) despite her non-conversion.

One of my Jewish guy friends commented (not to her) that her guy is probably just using her for practice - that she's definitely not the type of girl a boy brings home to his yiddishe mama.

I don't know if I agree with him - neither of us have met the boyfriend in question, so this is all purely us being yentas - but I see more and more couples getting married where he's a yid, she's not - and the whole (fake) conversion thing is not even an issue. It seems like 'our generation', or rather secular Jews of our generation, care a lot less about marrying within the faith...

Comments?

13 comments:

N said...

This is hardly surprising...

The old generation of secular people still maintain some semblance of Judaism in it's original sense, but their children are fully integrated into American society and they don't really know or care about this halacha, and with good reason, they've not cared the rest of their lives, so why now?

This problem will get worse as today's youth get older, but the JFS in England are having massive problems as a result of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews'_Free_School#Controversies

Data said...

I heard about the Jews' Free School problem. But then, if they are being subsidized by the government, then they have to let in who the government says they have to let in.

In college, the non-frum constantly mocked me; I found it equally mockable that the female rabbis idea about for a Pesach discussion was analyzing modern paintings of the 4 Sons.

Why should these children care, especially if they've been raised with a disdain for everything Jewish.

DanielS82 said...

Sadly I agree, I don't think the secular Jews of todays world care about keeping it in the faith. A lot of my friends from HS married outside the faith, and before I became religious I for sure dated outside of the faith; not for practice mind you, but just because when the only thing that is important about Judaism is to date other Jews, and nothing else is shown to be important, you start to realize that this isn't so important either.

Anonymous said...

It's simple why many guys choose to date non-jews.

The non-jew girls are many times much nicer than than the jewish girls. Just think about how jewish girls are raised... so many petty wants and needs... non-jewish girls have none of that.

On average that is...

frum single female said...

maidel- i think that a non-frum guy just isnt concerned with religion so he dates gentile women.
as for you anonymous-
if you have this opinion of jewish woman you probably dont know too many. you also are probably a live cheapskate with the personality of george costanza or perhaps shylock. after all thats what all jewish men are like ? gimme a break all jewish women are not one way and all jewish men arent all one way either. if you think this way you are VERY immature. there are good and bad of every ethnicity and if you dont know this by now you should grow up.

Lion of Zion said...

this is nothing new. it is well documented that the jewish intermarriage rate is over 50%, in some parts of the country it is over 70%.
can you blame secular jews? if you're not frum and have no interest in raising frum kids, what compelling reason is there to limit your romantic prospects to jews?

David said...

Yes, most Jews seem to intermarry (or, at least, don't care much about the issue). Most frum Jews seem to agree that this is a major problem (my rabbi described marrying a gentile as "defecating on the Torah"). What nobody seems to get is that this is nothing more nor less than a failure of Judaism to articulate a good reason for all the demands that it makes on its adherents. If the standard kiruv stuff from Aish doesn't convince you that God wrote the Torah and cares deeply about your adherence to every rule the rabbis made up since then, then what do you have left by way of a reason to limit your romantic prospects?

Mari said...

Would you mind explaining the 'fake conversion' comment? You have me a bit confused on what you are trying to say.

Maidel said...

it used to be that people felt obliged to have their non-Jewish partners convert to Judaism before the wedding.
now it seems like no one cares...

Anonymous said...

I know several converts who married Jews. They never found their religion from birth to be something they identified with...but it seems to me that if you are willing to have a brit at 25, you must be converting for more than just making your wife happy!

Michaltastik said...

ahahah, I was thinking Heshy made up his post. You posted this a month ago. I bet you were his inspiration.

Yes, "fake conversions." You know, like a divorced woman 9 year old tells the rabbis at the RCA that she doesn't know the brachah for water and they say, "it's ok, that' HIGH SCHOOL level." So, the mother says, "it's just that we dont' enjoy water so, we dont' make a brachah on it." and they not only convert them anyway but, the rabbi cashes in a favor that a principal of an Orthodox school owes him in order to get the family in. Did anyone care that the woman makes about the same amount per year as the tuition costs?

Dude with hat (aka BTS) said...

I think it's been like that for ages - there's nothing much new. It's been trendy at some point to fake-convert but could be new style now.
On the other side may be better not converted than fake-converted?

nameless, faceless said...

Ah, who the hell fake converts and where's a lax rabbi when I need him? These stories are all bullshit -- it's prohibitively difficult to convert Orthodox. No one does it for fun.

And to MM: if the guy isn't religious, why in the world would he marry a frum girl? Just to have Jewish kids so he can raise them with the same feelings of ambivalency? Two things: being Jewish and being a religious Jew is a huge distinction, two different species, and should be treated as such. Secondly, this just goes to show that labels mean nothing: a righteous non-Jew can raise your kids more "appropriately" than a weekend-driving, bacon-eating Greenbergsteinwitz could.