tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post121114282997033725..comments2023-10-11T22:45:32.049-04:00Comments on material maidel: the problem with marriageMaidelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11342989598403517433noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-44324019227315026192009-03-05T20:29:00.000-05:002009-03-05T20:29:00.000-05:00i'm not one to post but when jewish law is on the ...i'm not one to post but when jewish law is on the line i feel there is not much of a choice.<BR/><BR/>1)whether or not marriage is a mitzvah is a dispute between the rambam (hilchos nashim 1:4) and the rosh (ketubot siman 12) the latter holding that there is no mitzvah to get married<BR/><BR/>2)whether a ketubah is d'oraysa or d'rabanan is a dispute between many rishonim (see meseces ketubot daf yud. tosofos there, ramban and rosh)<BR/><BR/>3)regardless of the status of a ketubah, it is simply a stipulation that is inherit in a marriage. without a marriage the concept of ketubah doesn't exist (in fact the only reason we write it down in a contract is "k'dey lehafis dy'tah" which mean "so that her mind should be settled")<BR/><BR/>4)as harry-er so eloquently stated the torah says "lo ti'yeh ke'day'sha" what the exact definition of ke'day'sha is a matter of dispute among the commentaries, however, there is no way around the kidushin. despite dani's seemingly deep understanding of pilegesh which rashi in chumash defines as kidushin with no kutubah which is assur nowadays to marry with no ketubah. acc to the rambam pilegesh doesnt exist these day. take a look at the shulchan aruch my man... these things are way more complicated than they seem and when dealing with d'oraisa it's always l'chumra (not a suggestion rather l'chumra is the law)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-90596678976862691522009-03-04T00:52:00.000-05:002009-03-04T00:52:00.000-05:00where the half-lawyer may be wrong is in her lack ...where the half-lawyer may be wrong is in her lack of understanding of the laav of 'lo tiheye kedeysha' or dont be a male/female whore. you can't live with whomever you want whenever you want. <BR/><BR/>but aside for that issue, it is a very slippery slope that people are going down if they abolish marriage.<BR/><BR/>btw this post has been tagged<BR/>http://ayeshivishharry.blogspot.com/2009/03/where-have-good-people-gone.htmlharry-er than them allhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957506180776134351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-37523960849190622562009-02-27T05:57:00.000-05:002009-02-27T05:57:00.000-05:00PS: the pilegesh thing is not a solution for the g...PS: the pilegesh thing is not a solution for the get problem either. I suppose a pilegesh also needs some sort of a get, since I understood that her relationship has to be exclusive (with this one man and no one else)...<BR/>@pilegesh<BR/>I think your propaganda for polygamy is disgusting. And it's even more disgusting to claim that this "works in the framework of orthodox judaism".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-130408364803804062009-02-27T05:36:00.000-05:002009-02-27T05:36:00.000-05:00But if you look at the system, you come to the con...But if you look at the system, you come to the conclusion that it is one-sided.<BR/><BR/>In order to be balanced, the woman should be the one who is allowed to give a get, even without the consent of the husbund. <BR/><BR/>Why? Because the woman has a strict obligation of fidelity, while this is much more lenient on men.<BR/><BR/>i.e. if a men is still married and has an affair with someone else, it's not a big thing. So he does not really need the get. Women however are strictly forbidden to have affaires outside marriage. So they need the get.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-4223966291000034552009-02-27T05:34:00.000-05:002009-02-27T05:34:00.000-05:00this does not seem to work, since a civil marriage...this does not seem to work, since a civil marriage could also be considere marriage by rabbonim and would require a get.<BR/><BR/>The only solution would be not to marry jewish, since marriage to a non-jew is not recognised by religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-72489269721509428182009-02-25T10:48:00.000-05:002009-02-25T10:48:00.000-05:00B"HThis idea has been already proposed by Gaon R. ...B"H<BR/>This idea has been already proposed by Gaon R. Yaakov Moshe Toledano <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya'akov_Moshe_Toledano" REL="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya'akov_Moshe_Toledano</A> in halachik journal 88 years ago. After he was criticized for it he wrote a 15 page defence in his book Yam haGadol seif 75.Anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238066090591378417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-48527015362251007742009-02-22T13:06:00.000-05:002009-02-22T13:06:00.000-05:00I like my ketuba. It's pretty. And if my husband e...I like my ketuba. It's pretty. And if my husband ever tries to divorce me (God forbid) I want a goat... or whatever it is that it says in the ketuba.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-29614604890343369052009-02-22T12:52:00.000-05:002009-02-22T12:52:00.000-05:00did anyone ever hear of a pilegesh?(concubine) no ...did anyone ever hear of a pilegesh?<BR/>(concubine) no kesuba or kedushin, (there is some type of an agreement) the children are legit, and no need for a get!! and there are many halachik opinions that say its ok.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-78035963614998681092009-02-20T00:39:00.000-05:002009-02-20T00:39:00.000-05:00wow im amazed how some of you pick up on one singl...wow im amazed how some of you pick up on one single word in an article that has nothing to do with half-jews or full-jews or whatever....<BR/><BR/>some people just need to get over themselves and stop focusing on every lettter!<BR/><BR/>(right mm?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-63302296634387087222009-02-19T22:27:00.000-05:002009-02-19T22:27:00.000-05:00Polygamy, marriage w/o a kesuba...am I the only on...Polygamy, marriage w/o a kesuba...am I the only one seeing a pattern forming. ;-)Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-62511981671949618342009-02-19T21:23:00.000-05:002009-02-19T21:23:00.000-05:00The kesubah promises a certain amount of money if ...The kesubah promises a certain amount of money if the husband where to divorce his wife. This is why people dont want to divorce so quickly.Mikeinmidwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076346601047947913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-59613372752778936692009-02-19T20:15:00.000-05:002009-02-19T20:15:00.000-05:00So if she's half Jewish, what's the other half? Do...So if she's half Jewish, what's the other half? Does she keep Shabbos for 12.5 hours?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-14003724518879114712009-02-19T18:03:00.000-05:002009-02-19T18:03:00.000-05:00I really wanted to read this blog post ... but I c...I really wanted to read this blog post ... but I can't get past the "half-Jewish" thing.Chaviva Gordon-Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332712096317076482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-88571678475840632352009-02-19T17:41:00.000-05:002009-02-19T17:41:00.000-05:00I believe someone is confused here and I'll give y...I believe someone is confused here and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is the half-jewish lawyer. Kesubah and Kidushin are two different things. Kiddusin is marriage Kesubah is a contract that the rabbonon instituited to go along with marriage. While nobody in the Torah had a Kesubah they were married. A woman that does Kidushin will need a Get regardless of whether or not she also has a Kesubah. Obviously I oppose getting rid of either Kesubah or Kiddusin but just realize that it is two different issues.4ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12648531832532113186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-2551134554818473562009-02-19T09:17:00.000-05:002009-02-19T09:17:00.000-05:00I had a relative who used to sit through Kesuba Re...I had a relative who used to sit through Kesuba Readings at weddings and mutter under his breath "sheker... sheker..." as they read all the ways the husband was obliged to support ("support?!??!? Heaven forfend!!! I'm LEARNING!") his wife.<BR/><BR/>In any case - if you are planning on taking up the crusade, you unwittingly created your own slogan - "<I><B>GET</B></I> out of marriage", he he....G6https://www.blogger.com/profile/15932781801654313054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7594551858000480911.post-66177264334602209322009-02-19T08:48:00.000-05:002009-02-19T08:48:00.000-05:00I can see both sides of this issue. Unfortunately...I can see both sides of this issue. Unfortunately, the frum divorce rate is going up; that's a lot of crying for one mizbe'ach to do. Giving people a way out without divorce might be a good thing. At least give them more time to get to know each other and get used to marriage before locking them into a nesu'in.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, though, without the whole lock, stock, and barrel, I think you'd have even more couples splitting up. If there's no penalty for getting out, and we're making relationships without marriage mainstream, there will be even less reason for couples in trouble to try to work things out. That couldn't be good for society as a whole, even if it would be good for specific individuals.Bilingualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309187099940998081noreply@blogger.com